ESCAPE VELOCITY

1 - It's so cute the way the two of you strut around and peck at each other, each trying to be the biggest rooster in the yard.

2 - Strange, "cute" isn't the word I'd have chosen...

3 - Well, sarcasm doesn't come through well in text.

4 - @2 Stuart, I am pretty sure Ben was being sarcastic there.

Personally, this is more about a bully in the school yard starved for attention and one kid finally standing up to that bully.

This is not about 'cultural differences' or 'being the voice of truth' ... this is about being a manipulator and trying to stir up the pot. We would be better off with that voice just going away.

5 - @3 Us brits do understand sarcasm when we see it, even in print

@4 I'm not taking sides here, John. All I would say is that others perceive the situation to be different to you describe... And one man's bully is another man's victim.

6 - Perhaps I over-analyze everything, but occasionally I'll revisit one of my own posts and wonder, "what did I think saying that would accomplish?" All I'll say on this particular topic is that some blogs trigger that same curiosity from me far more frequently than others.

7 - Not sure I haven't missed something here... how are the two posts inflammatory? There's one about Exchange, and another one about Notes. Either way, I don't think you'll find vowe is "starved" of attention guys...

Oh, and look, a small contribution too: { Link }

8 - @John - Bullying is in the eye of the beholder sometimes, as you know from times in the past when your comments were perceived (without your intent) as bullying people when they said negative things about the betas of Notes 8.

In other words, I'm with Ben L (and often with Ben P as well, but in this specific case I like the barnyard analogy best).

9 - @7 - Uhh, Ben, that would be SOMEONE ELSE'S contribution. Pointing to a contribution from another person is not itself a contribution.

@1 & 8 - I'm absolutely mystified at how one would COMPARE me and Volker. I certainly fail to see how observing a common belief is some kind of strutting. But then, clearly you think his own posts were some kind of strutting, which mystifies me as well.

10 - I like both Volker and Nathan just fine, but sometimes both have egos that could use a bit of pricking. (Yes, Nathan, I'm sure I do as well, but it is quite beside the point)

11 - @9 Actually, Ben (P) was right, Nathan. Mikkel's instructions left out some important Mac-specific information, and Volker supplied it. It's that simple.

You will not find anyone comparing the two contributions, of course. Mikkel is a verrrry popular guy right now, and deservedly so.

12 - Nathan - Ask yourself why I even know that you find Volker irritating? Is that important information to share somehow? Does it serve to help your reputation, or enhance your chances to reach out and influence people? If not, why is it shared publicly? As far as I an tell, it is just strutting because you want to be the "go to" source for information. So does Volker. In both cases, it seems a bit silly. Plenty of people read both of your blogs. Plenty of people respect and like each of you. Little is served by getting in a huff about each other, and it tends to lower people's opinions of both of you. As for my analogy, I guess the question is "who is off laying the chickens while you two peck at each other?"

13 - @11 - Rob, that's not a knife.

This { Link } is { Link } a { Link } knife { Link }

@12 - I don't believe it enhances my reputation or my chance to reach out an influence people. If my concern were helping my reputation, I'd probably kiss his ass { Link } It's shared publicly because I think that hypocrisy and stupidity should be pointed and laughed at, not ignored. It's a pity that more people don't share that view.

As far as me being the "go to" source for anything, I guess you have me confused with someone else. I think you have pointed out on several occasions that I offer too much of myself while asking too little. Why you want to ascribe that to some particular motive, I simply don't understand. Certainly there have been times when I haven't followed through on my hopes to contribute to the community at large, but I have tried to put those behind me. I don't know why you would call that silly, but it honestly hurts me that you would say such a thing.

As far as I know, Volker doesn't get in a huff about me in any way. He simply blocks Lotus 911's offices from even reading his website, and he doesn't allow direct referrers from my blog. Oh, and he gets confused about where iPods are manufactured when it comes to me (hint: ALL iPods are made in China.) Otherwise, he pays me no mind.

And frankly, I pay him no mind, except when there's something that's just obviously detrimental to a community that somehow still adores him. But hey, plenty of people voted for Bush, too. I'm sure vowe.net is "fair and balanced."

As far as who gets what done in the hen house, anyone in Orlando last January who's reading this blog is probably pretty clear on that issue.

14 - Nathan - I think you offer plenty to the community. Volker offers different things to the community. You are a cheerleader (and I mean that in a positive sense) He holds up an unwelcome mirror, and while it is sometimes an unfair reflection, it is not always. Sometimes he gets too much joy out of ruffling feathers and compromises his journalistic integrity. Sometimes you get too carried away with the cheerleading and forget your objectivity. Such is life, and I don't particularly think either one is a problem. What is more annoying is the overreaction. Sometimes, Volker plays the troll. What is the best way to deal with a troll? Ignore him/her. Sometimes Volker raises perfectly valid points. What is the best way to deal with valid points? Address them calmly.

I just think you have blinders on when it comes to him, and can't see that focusing attention on his posts, which this post certainly did, gives him the exact attention he craves. His post about 10 things was sort of dumb, but had some truth, but reacting this strongly will make all of it seem to have hit more of a nerve. Just let it be. His other post about 1 point was more accurate, and more telling. Still, it wasn';t worth responding to or focusing on either. Just let it be.

Don't make the mistake of focusing heavily on that which doesn't deserve it. Those two posts hardly deserved the attention they have gotten. Focus instead on other posts where Volker provides some value. That will give him the attention he wants as a reward for more useful posts, which is what we all want, right?

15 - @13 - I'm pretty sure that's what I said, though your version comes with an Australian accent, which is always fun. Mikkel made a significant contribution, and then Volker made a small one (as Ben P accurately labeled it). You can insert as many instances of the word "very" in front of small as you like. In any event, (n*very) small != nonexistent.

We will now pause for the inevitable sub-thread debating the syntactical validity of my pseudo-code...

16 - @14 Ben:
"Don't make the mistake of focusing heavily on that which doesn't deserve it. Those two posts hardly deserved the attention they have gotten."

I think the point Nate and others were on is that the community encourages these posts by giving them attention, which they do because vowe's writing style is provocative by design. Volker Weber has tremendous community respect, but vowe.net has become an "attack blog" (and of late, not just attacking Lotus and Notes, though overdoing it on Notes). He says it is provocative and blunt and German, but there are plenty of Germans blogging balanced information about Lotus or other technology topics.

Until the community at large realizes that posts like the majority we have seen on vowe.net in the last several months are detrimental to the overall Notes market, and stops feeding the machine, the pattern will continue. When I have complained in the past, Volker has told me that he gets encouragement for these types of postings offline, including from my own development organization. I can't verify this, of course, but I would think that anyone who has had to defend Notes in their organization would know that nitpicky negativism has a way of being amplified in the blogosphere, and finding its way to people who will use that negativity.

I do not expect anyone to run a fanboy site, certainly not someone whose limited use of Notes is atypical of the normal corporate scenario. But it is hard to offer support -- or even engage in discussion -- when there is no equilibrium, no spirit of actually working together as a community displayed, not knowing when or where the next punch is going to come.

I have always known Volker to be critical, going back ten years to our first press interviews. But I do not know when he became the self-appointed anti-Ed, the primary public critic of Notes. It is even more complicated because of the effort trying to show that it is "nothing personal", linking to photo albums or doing advertising for an event -- sponsored by IBM -- featuring the product that he constantly criticizes.

17 - Well Ed, Nathan what Volker does might be the same thing that i am criticized (hope that's right) for when talking with my collegues.

They always say that "when you tell us about Notes/domino it seems that you hate this product because you say that so many things do not work properly".
And what i always respond is. In fact i'm in love with this cute little bastard, but it could be even a greater love if some things would simply be fixed.

For me vowe is playing the devils advocate. Some things like those you talk about have to be taken with a grain of salt and are from my point of view sarcastic. Other are valuable and when you say he is always getting offensive you are missing a point.
A point that i have learned to think about over and over again when someone points at me and says you are wrong: "What if he is right".

18 - @9 Nathan, I'm well aware of the provenance of each contribution. Look again, like Rob said.

19 - I do not think you will find many anti-Ed postings on vowe.net. If you like it write about it if not please say nothing. Is that the preferred way of communication in the Domino community? Why is it that a single website is causing so many headaches?
If it is wrong why not post 100 comments telling the real story?
I am very happy that there is at least one site that is brave enough to say if something is broken.
The story of blocking lotus911 any maybe others is a sad one and my personal opinion is that this is not an acceptable policy especially since it is not clear who is being blocked and why (the description in the faq is quite vague). I hope this will change some day.

20 - I don't have vowe.net in my feed reader because Volker doesn't blog much that interests me. I have friends who do read it who point out the bits that might be of interest, and I go and read the interesting bits, comment if I feel it appropriate, then I go back to ignoring vowe.net.

My point is, why the hell did you have to go and ruin my utopia by referencing more of his drivel? I feel sympathy for anyone who reads any mostly negative blog (vowe.net isn't the only one), and truly pity those who get caught up in the emotional manipulations. That's why my feed reader is down to less than 30 feeds now.

21 - I am very happy that there is at least one site that is brave enough to say if something is broken.

LMAO. Yeah. No one else dares to point out problems because THEY'RE SCARED. It takes a mighty heart to point out a bug in a piece of beta software. If it weren't for someone doing that, the world would crumble into oblivion.

What color is the sky on your planet?

@20 - Why did I point it out? Look at the comments here rushing to his defense. Those are the people that think a post that basically says "10 reasons why the Domino community is stupid" is somehow making a contribution.

22 - @21 - To be perfectly clear, I'm not trying to defend Volker in particular. On the one hand, he doesn't need the help, and on the other, there are plenty of times when I disagree with him. There are plenty of times when I disagree with you, too, as you know. In spite of that, I like and respect both of you quite a lot.

In the specific case of the posts you're referencing, I didn't read them the same way you did. I saw them as an attempt to illustrate that our fairly insular community does not tend to have an accurate perception of either ourselves or our competitors. I didn't see them as an attack on the community, but rather a relatively gentle nudge towards a reevaluation of our perspective.

On the larger issue of Volker being perpetually negative about IBM on vowe.net, I don't understand why this is a big problem. We have people who do (almost) nothing but cheerlead (John Head among them, and deliberately excluding Ed because it's his job). We have people who do (almost) nothing but complain (Volker among them). And we have people, both yourself and myself included, who will do either whenever they like. I think the variety of opinion is more healthy than a "groupthink" approach, which we've been accused of in the past.

23 - The sky is grey in old Europe and it is snowing in Germany. Time will tell if the we are all doing great strategy is going to be successful (I really do not know).
vowe.net will probably have less postings about IBM Lotus products anyway (but I do not know as I have never met him) so there is hope for the Domino community.
I also believe that SearchDomino will disappear so that "problem" is then solved too.
I never said that people are scared. IBM has a very professional way of dealing with criticism (seriously speaking).

24 - @17 I would like to believe this. Having witnessed a flurry of critical postings about Notes 8 in the days following its release, I couldn't help but think, these could easily have been reported during the months of the public beta. Why wait until it is too late?

@21 Nate, there is a fear element at play here, but it's not fear of IBM.

25 - I read vowe's list and it comes off as a David Letterman's "Top 10". It seemed to get progressively worse. I will admit the first one was a "yeah I can see that..." reaction, but as the list went on it lost it's appeal. I'm still wondering, was it a joke, a dig, but I wouldn't be honest if I didn't admit I was a tiny bit insulted (I've got other things to spend my neural energy on).

26 - @22 - Rob, If you think I am a cheerleader, I could care less. I am customer focused. My customers don't want to hear about product or company bashing on my blog or in the forums. They want me solving their problems and being an expert and leader. That is what I do. If you (and I don't mean you, I mean the 'community') want to take that as cheerleading, go right ahead.

But you are on the DP calls .. Nathan and I contribute more 'honest' ... and I mean honest in the smackdown, 'what the hell are you doing that is the dumbest idea every' feedback in those programs than anyone else. Why, because we are passionate about these programs. But mostly because we are focused on delivering solutions to our customers.

The end game here is that Vowe.net is not out there to help the community. It is Volker's tool to manipulate and stir the pot. Does he do this on the site where he gets paid? Nope. Only on his english site 'that is not a blog'. I have a specific case of a customer reading a blog entry about his posts yesterday and deciding not to go with someone in our communities solution. Simply because they decided that they did not want to contribute to someone who was willing to blindly follow someone who does not have the Lotus communities' best interest at heart. That is lost income. Speaks volumes vs. hit count on PlanetLotus.org.

Nathan and I just are not playing follow the leader. If more people were like that, even if it meant rising up against us, there might not be this kind of stuff going on.

27 - Simply because they decided that they did not want to contribute to someone who was willing to blindly follow someone who does not have the Lotus communities' best interest at heart.

Nice John. Smooth going. Just like last time there was a thread like this on this site, we descend into outright nastiness. If this is "community", spare me.

28 - @27 - lots of false assumptions going on here. I am so glad that we all jump to conclusions and blame people when we have no idea what is going on. Or the whole story. Who is being nasty Ben? I am the one still having the dialog with the customer, and still pushing the solution. Even after these attacks.

29 - @27 - Ben, while I think John might have overreached talking about the issue in so vague a fashion here, I don't know why you would blame HIM because a customer of his reacted to somebody else's blog post.

But now you guys are all throwing around meta-blame, and even I think that's silly.

30 - @29 Yeah I was way to vague ... my bad. I can't give more details, but people are just assuming things, and are totally wrong. This is fun I am buying the booze Nathan ...

31 - I kinda left this "community" some time ago...but the links still work

{ Link }

32 - Volker may not be everybodies cup of tea but, funnily enough, the only time I go to his site is when someone from the Domino community points me there.

I think you will all find that if you take an honest look though you feedreader comments that every single one of the "10 reasons" has been articulated by the Domino Community in post responses over the last 3 years.

I guess that if the Domino Community doesn't like it, then they shouldn't make those comments and then people like Volker could not throw it in their faces in combatative mode.

I spent years being fiercely critical yet totally loyal to the Notes/Domino brand. Whilst at the same time keeping my eyes open to what MS were doing. It was very effective in my presentation to business on the value of keeping and upgrading Notes/Domino.

The biggest one for me was finding out that Exchange 2000 and 2003 have compatibliity modes which does not require rip and replace. Choice is not Force. Something I never learned from reading Domino Blogs.

Volker is saying "Tone it down, it's not helping"

And as has been said above, It isn't.

33 - @32 - Neil, I think what is perhaps more ripe for discussion is that what you really see in those 10 items are things which exploded into generalities while often times being based in some degree of truth.

I know many of us have experienced MSFT outright lying and misrepresenting their products. Do they all lie? No I don't believe so, but I think that we have a "one bad apple" type of situation there.

I appreciate Volker's attempt to be, perhaps a more neutral observer, equally cynical to both sides of the argument. However, I think it tends to come off a bit offensive to those who prefer the Lotus brand.

Not that I think there's anything wrong with that, I'm up for a good argument as much as the next guy/gal.

What I think helps is experience and examples. I know there are things in Outlook & Exchange that suck because I've used them personally. Then again there are things I might not like in ND as well. I don't necessarily believe all 10 of those items but going back to my first point, I think many of them have degrees of truth.

Perhaps the community is a tad too vocal. I don't know if that's true or not. I know we've had folks who were told they were "too passionate" about things, and perhaps that's where "tone it down" makes sense.

I am a bit surprised on that Exhcange 2000/03 deal. Clearly they don't talk about that much. And lets not forget that MSFT has issued many statements which back up the need for a r&r with Exchange...like 2007 for example.

I tend to believe a well constructed statement, backed up with examples and proof wins the day. Of course I've been proved wrong with that too. :)

K.