ESCAPE VELOCITY

1 - Oh, Vowedemort. I thought you were changing the OpenNTF back end to { Link } you know, in case the NSF didn't scale

The new "adult supervision" for OpenNTF is appreciated.

2 - Volker blocks comments posted with your email address??!?!? Wow...

3 - my 2 cents: { Link }

4 - @3 - Sorry, Tim. Since this site is the referrer, that link will always be redirected to the homepage. Volker blocks deep links from my blog.

But remember, I'm the one practicing censorship and suppressing opinions. "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength"

5 - Nathan, unfortunately it's the case that he has a very negative view of everything Lotus for some time now.
I never understood why.

6 - So okay, I never heard of him, Volker, before. Why are you advertising for him? I think you'd be better off just ignoring the naysayers.

On the other hand, after reading a post on Toonie's blog, I just spent an your writing a message on the OpenNTF forum and then it didn't save. I've tried to get involved in OpenNTF in years past but never managed to grok the web site.

So as one who has wanted to contribute but couldn't, I welcome that you're reorganizing, if that's what you're doing. I'd rather read about the progress.

Let me know how I can help. But I do not want to hear about the politics.

Peace,

Rob:-]

7 - I'm not sure that anyone's complaining about people doing the work or making sure that nobody is stealing code. The issues I've seen so far, mine included, are with the direction that the Openntf Web site is taking.

Interesting you should mention ISO - here's the link for ISO SC 34, who handles, among other things, standards for ODF and OOXML: { Link }

Note:
-No meeting minutes on the home page
-No company names or ads for working group committee members

Once again, it's not bad to have these things, but do they need to be on the home page? How about steering.openntf.org with a prominent link on openntf.org? With ways to sign up and participate as easy to find as the meeting minutes?

8 - @7 - "Interesting you should mention ISO - here's the link for ISO SC 34, who handles, among other things, standards for ODF and OOXML: { Link }"

You mean the notoriously opaque group that managed to get OOXML turned into an ISO standard despite massive misrepresentation by certain vendors? Dude, when I suggested following suit, I was being sarcastic.

"Note:
-No meeting minutes on the home page"

Are you suggesting that's a GOOD thing!??!??! That's a terrible thing. There's no transparency of process. Open source and open standards groups should publish every fleeting thought, not make decisions in dark holes that are binding to everyone that follows.

"-No company names or ads for working group committee members"

Perhaps people thing that the company logos on the page are meant to be ads. They're not. They're meant to be lightning rods. "If you don't like what's happening, here's who's screwing it up." On the very first day of the steering committee, 6 of 9 members entered with a unified voice that said "we are here to STEER, not rubber stamp." The great thing? The other 3 replied with "COOL!"

You don't reach consensus instantly unless you're in a foxhole. So there's some process involved. We could do the process in secret, or we could do it in public. We've elected to do it in public.

"Once again, it's not bad to have these things, but do they need to be on the home page?"

Is there anything more important right now than figuring out what we're going to do over the next 5 years? We never did this before, and I think a good vision with passionate people who worked hard to achieve something hit a wall. That wall is one of ownership. Not "who own's a web site" but one of "who owns the entrepreneurial passion that's been a hallmark of this community?" And the answer is "no one." We have to embrace all for it to happen. And that means bringing what used to be late night phone conversations between me and Bruce and Vince out into the open and make it a real process. Otherwise it's a bunch of blowhards jabbering on the phone. All sound and fury, signifying large phone bills.

"How about steering.openntf.org with a prominent link on openntf.org? With ways to sign up and participate as easy to find as the meeting minutes?"

We're sorting out a plan for that as I type this. The list of involved planners and implementers is at least 30 already. We have a very aggressive timetable.

Brian, if you read this in 7 days time and think we didn't deliver, I'm all ears. Fair enough?

9 - Glad to hear there is some work going on behind the scenes. Hopefully it will translate into action and there will be some visible results soon.

I took up your call to action and finally got into the OpenNTF forums yesterday. Within the first few minutes I ran into a number of issues with the site, then I saw that most had been reported already, and then I saw how long some of them had been sitting there untouched. I got more than a little pissed off and went on a rant, as I often do.

I'm not slamming anyone. As has been said repeatedly (dare I say ad nauseam), everyone working on this is doing it on a part-time basis. I'm also participating on a part-time basis and wasting my time dealing with an admittedly broken website isn't very fulfilling. As it sits today the site itself is a huge barrier to entry.

10 - So, does that mean than anyone who has any complaints about the site, the process, the goals or anything is just wrong?

I guess I can see why that's a convenient position to take, must simplify things a lot...